Thread: Copying From Vinyl - High, Mid & Low Settings?

Hi Folks! Am trying to get the best out of my vinyl rips at present and have been using Audacity for the past few years with a varying level of success so far, especially now that I've discovered how to copy in stereo ( ! Although my previous mono copies sounded allright on the whole I reckon?).

I was wondering if any of you veteran rippers here could give me any tips regarding what High, Mid and Low settings you set for recording vinyl? At present I have all settings at 0 (exactly midway between -26 and +12) on my Kam mixer, with the Gain set midway also so that the sound levels never reach the red. I try not to adjust theBooth level (master volume out put I think?) from 6, unless I have a particularly quiet track. And I make sure that the Audacity Audio Track recording doesn't look too compressed on the Waveform visual. Are there any tips and tricks to ensure that the audio sounds right with regards to bass, treble and whatnot?

Any bits of advice will be thoroughly welcomed!

Cheers!

Leave the EQ as zero - messing with this will ruin the recording.

Once recorded, if u have proper monitor speakers (not normal hi-fi ones) & 'tweaking software', u can see which frequencies can be adjusted to make it sound crisper etc.

when i rip stuff i have my eqs set to zero and i adjust the out vol to my laptop to make sure there's no clipping. the only processing i do to the resulting recording is to adjust the stereo balance (if required) and then amplify the sound (not normalise) to make sure it's good and loud, whilst not clipping.

Cheers for the EQ advice there RenegadeGenius! I had farted about with those settings in the past and duffed up some of my copies. But at least I'm on the right track by keeping them at zero. I try out some tweaking software also to see if that'll sort out some of my rips too. Which ones are to be recommended?

pc : soundforge or wavelab
mac : amadeus pro

Originally Posted by stuz74

Cheers for the EQ advice there RenegadeGenius! I had farted about with those settings in the past and duffed up some of my copies. But at least I'm on the right track by keeping them at zero. I try out some tweaking software also to see if that'll sort out some of my rips too. Which ones are to be recommended?

I'd only recommend tweaking it if you have some proper monitor speakers.
Even decent headphones don't help fully, and hifi speakers won't give u a 'true' sound.

But, this is what I do:

Use either Audacity or Adobe Audition 3 to record the track.
Use this pluggin within Adobe Audition to examine the sound & tweak the eq a touch:
http://www.rndigital.com/frequal-izer.html
I then usually 'beef' the audio up using another program called 'T-Racks 3' or if it's already fairly loud, I use Waves L3 Limiter just to clip the tops a little bit & bring the volume up a touch.

I wouldn't muck around too much with all that though unless u intend to get really involved with beefing the audio up - it can take a lot of extra time.

Will definitely be checking out some of those programs Haze & RenegadeGenius. Thanks for the recommendation and tips!

I agree with everyone above who says tweaking with it before and after recording is a big NO...Even though I have a pair of Yamaha NS-10s I still won't tweak with it...preferring to leave in all the crackles and pops..Try to keep the sound as neutral and true to the original as possible (at zero pitch aswell)....obviously good condition needles and clean vinyl is a big YES...And avoid recording through an amplifier that will colour the sound...If I really like someones recording, then I have the option to spend time on it myself, cleaning, filtering etc....

Another factor many seem to be unaware of is the turntable you use...If you can, avoid using a direct drive Technics 1210 or 1200...opting instead for a reasonable quality belt drive... thus eliminating much of the rumble that direct-drive turntables inject... While Technics are undoubtedly the DJ choice when partying they're mediocre for ripping....

Another point often ignored is how you set up your needle's tracking...if you've ever noticed the stereo recording has one side louder than the other? This is down to how the needle is tracking/sitting in the groove...it needs to fit so it fills the groove level and straight...this means proper needle set up is required.. If it isn't tracking properly, how can it be reproducing all the frequencies?

Try recording to the maximum level possible without going into the red at any point along the recording "line".. on the mixer, or amplifier, or levels in the computer's recording program...

Personally, I like to see .wav but 320kbps is also good...but unless the source is good and neutral, then all that is just a waste of time...I am less upset by crackle and pops than when someone has killed the frequencies...

And please check afterwards to make sure you've not recorded it with skips in where the needle has jumped the groove...but this is mostly down to poor needle maintenace, set up and tracking...

And if you've ever wondered how pictures, and tracknames, other peoples websites etc. appear on your Windows Media Player...try this metadata editor, it's freeware, "Audioshell" http://www.softpointer.com/AudioShell.htm

LOL....did I just disagree with everyone above?

Thank you for the extensive tips on recording there Malc01m! I think my setup is pretty much in line with what you've said in how I'm recording at present, as I'm keeping the Low, Mid and High settings at zero. I had tried mucking about with them with disasterous results, so am keeping them neutral. I'm also using a simple but decent quality, belt-drive turntable with no pitch control and good needle tracking, so should be doing okay with that.

Your advice has been great to let me know that I'm following the correct steps in vinyl copying. The only bit of tinkering I do with a track is to edit out any obvious pops and crackles in quieter sections by copying and pasting from surrounding areas of the track, over the offending pop. And have managed to edit out some pretty bad noises that shouldn't be there. I have never used Noise Reduction filters as it tends to negatively affect the whole recording.

Cheers for the response!

I hate pops & have to remove them

Best thing for this is Adobe Audition (or cool edit pro) - zoom into the click and highlight just to the left and right of it so u cover the pop.
Then use the 'Click / Pop Eliminator' tool. Do Autofind all levels & then click 'Fill single Click Now' - this should destroy the pop (more or less).

Nothing like a bit of pop.... Top Of The Pops...

Funny, but I've been using Cool Edit for years too.. I do much the same thing as you , RenegadeGenius, with pops...Zoom in and edit the offending bit....Of course I've downloaded and tried out Adobe Audition and have settled on Audition v1.5...I find later versions less stable..

Now something a bit off topic...
Skips on downloaded tracks are more troublesome.. My technique is to cut and paste in a borrowed bit from another part of the song to repair it, paying special attention to matching the length and position of the graft to maintain the continuity of beats/tempo and structure..and of course as close to the original sound of that part of the song as possible...I bloody hate skips...they can skip off !!

Never tried it with Wavelab... wouldn't know where to start or even if it is possible with Wavelab...

Originally Posted by malc01m

I agree with everyone above who says tweaking with it before and after recording is a big NO...Even though I have a pair of Yamaha NS-10s I still won't tweak with it...preferring to leave in all the crackles and pops..Try to keep the sound as neutral and true to the original as possible (at zero pitch aswell)....obviously good condition needles and clean vinyl is a big YES...And avoid recording through an amplifier that will colour the sound...If I really like someones recording, then I have the option to spend time on it myself, cleaning, filtering etc....

Another factor many seem to be unaware of is the turntable you use...If you can, avoid using a direct drive Technics 1210 or 1200...opting instead for a reasonable quality belt drive... thus eliminating much of the rumble that direct-drive turntables inject... While Technics are undoubtedly the DJ choice when partying they're mediocre for ripping....

Another point often ignored is how you set up your needle's tracking...if you've ever noticed the stereo recording has one side louder than the other? This is down to how the needle is tracking/sitting in the groove...it needs to fit so it fills the groove level and straight...this means proper needle set up is required.. If it isn't tracking properly, how can it be reproducing all the frequencies?

Try recording to the maximum level possible without going into the red at any point along the recording "line".. on the mixer, or amplifier, or levels in the computer's recording program...

Personally, I like to see .wav but 320kbps is also good...but unless the source is good and neutral, then all that is just a waste of time...I am less upset by crackle and pops than when someone has killed the frequencies...

And please check afterwards to make sure you've not recorded it with skips in where the needle has jumped the groove...but this is mostly down to poor needle maintenace, set up and tracking...

And if you've ever wondered how pictures, and tracknames, other peoples websites etc. appear on your Windows Media Player...try this metadata editor, it's freeware, "Audioshell" http://www.softpointer.com/AudioShell.htm

LOL....did I just disagree with everyone above?

That's some much needed info for me, I am just about to start ripping all my vinyl, been meaning to do it months but just haven't had the time.

However a couple more q's...

I use an external sound card, it's a Creative Soundblaster external, should I use this or just put it through the sound card on my laptop? I will be having it all hooked up through my mixer at the same time just to get the right levels.

Oh and is there any software out there that will remove the really bad hisses and crackles as a few of the gems I have, seem to have deteriated in sound quality.

I plan to clean the records before I record them too, the needles I am using are the Shure Whitelabel carts and styli are these ok for recording or should I invest in something else??

Originally Posted by carlcurtis83

That's some much needed info for me, I am just about to start ripping all my vinyl, been meaning to do it months but just haven't had the time.

However a couple more q's...

I use an external sound card, it's a Creative Soundblaster external, should I use this or just put it through the sound card on my laptop? I will be having it all hooked up through my mixer at the same time just to get the right levels.

Oh and is there any software out there that will remove the really bad hisses and crackles as a few of the gems I have, seem to have deteriated in sound quality.

I plan to clean the records before I record them too, the needles I am using are the Shure Whitelabel carts and styli are these ok for recording or should I invest in something else??

Your external card will probably be better than any built in one (which usually generate noise).
Make sure your tone controls are at zero on your mixer - also test Line Out & Master Out to see which gives the proper sound - just incase one outputs a bit too loud & distorts the recording.

Hiss - very tricky to remove without ruining the hihat frequency area.
Pops aren't too difficult using some decent software such as Adobe Audition - but it is very time consuming.

Those carts are fairly good (and are what I use) but there are better carts out there - but they're more than double the price!

aye never tweek EQ on the way in .(when ripping) ..i look at it this way the recording artist will have spent loads of time and money on top notch producers and studio time /equipment that has far better EQ than we probibly have ..there monitors will have been second to none and there ears will have been trained over many years .... how is a mixers EQ going to improve on it ??

Though Good EQ on a damaged /old Recording can help out ... but as always better to record the with EQ flat and mess after
and if anyone is thinking there laptop sound card is ok realy needs new ears .... most are terrable and very noisy so get a nice cheep m-audio 2x2 ... great sound cards and they run Asio drivers for low latency great if you ever plan on getting creative with your own stuff

Anyone know of a good way to sort out the Snap, crackle and pop of a vinyl that is in v poor condition?

ie. literally hundreds of pops per track large and small.

I usually use the zoom, copy & paste method, but when it comes to this amount it means far too many hours editing causing definite RSI and headache

yeah use some record cleaner then put the full weights worth of needle on the vinyl and play the record then
another wipe with cleaner and it should sort it

scratches on the other hand you can use wav plug ins or error detection to remove pops and shit

Originally Posted by J3D

scratches

Yep, this the problem as I said above, the vinyl in question is in v poor condition

Originally Posted by J3D

wav plug ins

about this I would like to hear more