english footy

**oldskoolrules** · 10th February 2012

knowing where to start on this is a mission but i will give it a shot. my first stand out memory as a kid watching england play football would be mexico 86 and from that tournament the sense of disappointment and hope as been ingrained. you see following england is much more than turning on a t.v. and watching some footy it's a part of who you are when you catch the bug. it's a passion that is very much tribal and to lots of people far more than just eleven men kicking a ball.
and like many kids i was into it big time! played for my school and county etc, so when england used to play it was a big thing. italia 90 was a turing point in english football because not only was it your hardcore footy fans watching the games but by the time the semi with west germany came along the majority of the country was watching gazza cry. the boom in 90s football was massive and clubs & t.v. were fast to act on it. by the time euro 96 came round the football hooligan element had been taken out and teams like chelsea who lets not forget would get nine thousand on a league game where selling games out with a new breed of fan 'the general public' so of course this made the expectations on the national team more focused. after coming so near in euro 1996 people had raised expectations of the national team fueled very much by the national press and media. and we bought into the hype!

everyone wanted in on the boom in football and talking up games & players in the media was and still is the way to sell sky subscriptions and red top news papers.
as an example i once watched a interview with terry venables and a guy from the sun asked at the start of euro 96 'can england win this tournament ?' now what is venables going to say 'no we have no chance'... of course he said 'yes we have a team that can go and win it'.
of course the next day in the sun it's 'venables says we are going to win it!' all over the back page. so from the very start there was unnecessary pressure and expectation from the fans and media. when in reality the guy had no choice but to say yes because if he says anything else there on his case saying are you the right man for the job.

this problem will never go away, a 24 hour sports news ch needs to get sound bites as do newspapers. people read and see interviews and believe the hype, well the ones who don't know any better.
the money that's gone into english football is off the charts but nobody as the time to develop new talent it's a quick fix league with little to no chance of a young english player getting a opportunity to shine. it's not a sport anymore it's a game of big bank take little bank which is killing the future of english talent. teams from spain etc are not going to take our young players if they only play in league cup games are they ?
how many players come up in the barca youth team then go on to the first team squad ? it's a model we need to copy.

now onto the players that play at the moment for england, this is a sad state of affairs because none of them feel the pride and passion of what it used to be to play for england. in fact to most it's a given there on the team sheet so they don't feel they have to give there very best when they play. before it was all about getting 130k a week players would give anything to try and get a england cap but now the hunger is not there. they believe the hype they get from the media and consistently underperform and in there eyes so what i am still getting that 130k at the end of the week so happy days.
as for the captain side of things it used to be a big thing when you had true mens men leading them out like butcher,robson and pearce but the mollycoddled wimps of today don't know what it means to man up and be a leader. would it have killed rio to put his pride to one side and said yes to having the honor of being the england captain. to busy on twitter talking shite to see what really is important to a player putting on the three lions. let's not even get started on terry!

it's one big click at the moment and that as to end. even today there is talk of gerrard being the new captain this can't be on form the guy as been out injured for most of the season so yet again it goes on rep not form.
getting back to the media i don't think they are a true reflection on how the public are feeling when it comes to england wining tournaments i think it's there way of getting a buzz going to help sell there products. i don't know any england fan for years who as thought we can go and win a cup.
it's the age old thing of building them up to knock them right down.

peoples attitude to england is what bugs me, they mistake passion for arrogance. it's the same the world over and i have seen it first hand usa,aus,nz,scotland,spain,portugal,france etc but in a way i like the fact everyone want's us to fail it gives being a fan more edge.

as for the future i would say it's not looking good because big money players from abroad will always come before youth development in the english game. if we can't build for the future at the top level then how can the national team grow ?

**harpicboosh** · 10th February 2012

Originally Posted by oldskoolrules

knowing where to start on this is a mission but i will give it a shot. my first stand out memory as a kid watching england play football would be mexico 86 and from that tournament the sense of disappointment and hope as been ingrained. you see following england is much more than turning on a t.v. and watching some footy it's a part of who you are when you catch the bug. it's a passion that is very much tribal and to lots of people far more than just eleven men kicking a ball.
and like many kids i was into it big time! played for my school and county etc, so when england used to play it was a big thing. italia 90 was a turing point in english football because not only was it your hardcore footy fans watching the games but by the time the semi with west germany came along the majority of the country was watching gazza cry. the boom in 90s football was massive and clubs & t.v. were fast to act on it. by the time euro 96 came round the football hooligan element had been taken out and teams like chelsea who lets not forget would get nine thousand on a league game where selling games out with a new breed of fan 'the general public' so of course this made the expectations on the national team more focused. after coming so near in euro 1996 people had raised expectations of the national team fueled very much by the national press and media. and we bought into the hype!

everyone wanted in on the boom in football and talking up games & players in the media was and still is the way to sell sky subscriptions and red top news papers.
as an example i once watched a interview with terry venables and a guy from the sun asked at the start of euro 96 'can england win this tournament ?' now what is venables going to say 'no we have no chance'... of course he said 'yes we have a team that can go and win it'.
of course the next day in the sun it's 'venables says we are going to win it!' all over the back page. so from the very start there was unnecessary pressure and expectation from the fans and media. when in reality the guy had no choice but to say yes because if he says anything else there on his case saying are you the right man for the job.

this problem will never go away, a 24 hour sports news ch needs to get sound bites as do newspapers. people read and see interviews and believe the hype, well the ones who don't know any better.
the money that's gone into english football is off the charts but nobody as the time to develop new talent it's a quick fix league with little to no chance of a young english player getting a opportunity to shine. it's not a sport anymore it's a game of big bank take little bank which is killing the future of english talent. teams from spain etc are not going to take our young players if they only play in league cup games are they ?
how many players come up in the barca youth team then go on to the first team squad ? it's a model we need to copy.

now onto the players that play at the moment for england, this is a sad state of affairs because none of them feel the pride and passion of what it used to be to play for england. in fact to most it's a given there on the team sheet so they don't feel they have to give there very best when they play. before it was all about getting 130k a week players would give anything to try and get a england cap but now the hunger is not there. they believe the hype they get from the media and consistently underperform and in there eyes so what i am still getting that 130k at the end of the week so happy days.
as for the captain side of things it used to be a big thing when you had true mens men leading them out like butcher,robson and pearce but the mollycoddled wimps of today don't know what it means to man up and be a leader. would it have killed rio to put his pride to one side and said yes to having the honor of being the england captain. to busy on twitter talking shite to see what really is important to a player putting on the three lions. let's not even get started on terry!

it's one big click at the moment and that as to end. even today there is talk of gerrard being the new captain this can't be on form the guy as been out injured for most of the season so yet again it goes on rep not form.
getting back to the media i don't think they are a true reflection on how the public are feeling when it comes to england wining tournaments i think it's there way of getting a buzz going to help sell there products. i don't know any england fan for years who as thought we can go and win a cup.
it's the age old thing of building them up to knock them right down.

peoples attitude to england is what bugs me, they mistake passion for arrogance. it's the same the world over and i have seen it first hand usa,aus,nz,scotland,spain,portugal,france etc but in a way i like the fact everyone want's us to fail it gives being a fan more edge.

as for the future i would say it's not looking good because big money players from abroad will always come before youth development in the english game. if we can't build for the future at the top level then how can the national team grow ?

Wow-Great read & for what it’s worth I agree with nearly everything point you make!!

Particularly with regards young players needing a chance. I’m my opinion young fellas should look at going abroad, to say Holland, Belgium & get experience there for a couple of years, rather than going down to the Championship- if they are good enough they’ll succeed, gain some valuable tactical knowledge & life experience , possibly some Champions experience to boot. They’ll surely get picked up by a premier league team if they do?

The flipside of this is that a UK or Irish lad with 80% of the ability WILL give you more than some foreign lads a good deal of the time- e.g. Oxledade Chamberlin vs Arhavin? Clubs keeping bringing in ‘Arshavins’ so it appears that there’s no magic fix.

The clubs and the FA need to do more- last summer your U17, U20 & U21 sides all went to their respective European & World Cups without most of the talented players used in the qualifying rounds. Club Managers pulling players left right and centre so that they could have enough lads to play on pres season club tours to the USA & Asia. None of your rivals would allow this, Germany, France, Italy all had success at senior as a result of underage success. The clubs worked with them- look at Spain for example. Barcelona (In Catalonia and no great lover of a unified Spain) insisted Xavi and co play in Olympics, u21s etc as part of his development for example.

I don’t think England fans are any less/ more passionate than the other countries/ nations you listed >Usa,Aus,Nz,Scotland,Spain,Portugal,France et al. This attitude you mention could be down to the history of antagonism your nation has had with these places in the past – e.g. wars, colonial disputes, political fallings out.. Of course they want you to fail- surely you want the same for the ‘Argies’ & ‘Yanks’ too? This is healthy and a bit of fun surely? Providing it goes no further than a few off colour songs and banners of course

The arrogant- ‘Course England can with it’/ we wuz robbeed’ is probably an another cultural hang up- ‘England Expects’ is an saying that goes back to your empire days. Most English people are sane and have moved on. They don’t expect the national side to win everything in sight all the time. I don’t think your Media (not sane!) have moved on however. They lose the run of themselves each time the 3 lions enter a tournament. It permeates down to some of the players & some fans too I’d imagine. Build them up for a fall I suppose. Bad news sells. It’s killing your boys though- they are terrified each time they walk out for England. Butcher, Robson and co never had to deal with that kind of thing.

I think the Euro 1996 point you make is an interesting one. In the subsequent years after it I remember having a moan about its impact on the game- particularly on the premier league. “Too many middle class fans” Id rant (without any irony too I might add considering how my own personal situation was changing at the time)
“It’ll kill the soul of the game in England.” “It’s always been the working man’s game etc” blah blah
For a while I felt those rants to be sort of vindicated- there were more and more nice family’s arriving in Volvos at Loftus Road and the atmosphere suffered (I my opinion). The match day experience was totally different to that of 6-7 years previous. I also noticed more south Asian, Black & non-white people attending games too. No bad thing of course-football should be for all walks of life.

The one thing that hadn’t changed after Euro 96 was the English players- they were still predominately working class white & black lads. Despite being increasingly outnumbered by imported players due the increasing amounts money clubs had to spend, your players still tend to come from the same section of society (Perhaps it’s another example of how history & socio cultural norms and expected roles can work against the betterment of a Nation?)
I thought nothing of this until I lived in Berlin a few years later. I followed the Bundesleiga & I noted that a greater cultural & social mix of players seemed to play professional football over there- i.e. middle & working class white, black & brown Germans from all walks of life. Sons of doctors lining up alongside son’s of sheet metal workers. I was more than surprised to discover this and pleased too. Sport- like anything shouldn’t be divided along class lines like say football & rugby union (and Education) is in the UK. If you look at France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy & most of Europe- even over in the likes of Brazil you have the sons of fecking diplomats playing alongside young fellas from the favelas in league/ national sides.
Essentially what I'm striving to say is that England is not utilizing its full potential in the same way your rivals are. True the very best players normally come from the hardest backgrounds but surely it's foolish & harmful to restrict the player 'supply-line' to one section of society only?

A true England team should comprise of players from every race, every social strata(providing they are good enough to play of course !!!) & not keep going on as it is surely?
In a sense the bigger sums of money coming into your league could be a good thing and help change things- Rugby is still a middle class sport in England but is beginning to change - Jason Robinson & Paul Sackey were not from traditional rugby union backgrounds but came in- thanks to professionalism and helped you win the world cup.
Although England has made great strides in the ‘Kick it out’ anti-racism campaign (they are light years ahead of the rest of Europe on that score), the FA really needs to look at the supply line of footballers & nature a system that reflects all of England’s undoubted strengths & aspects.

**oldskoolrules** · 10th February 2012

trying not to go off on a tangent is hard work on this subject mate because many factors come into it that i could of written pages about. to pick up on a few points like young players being sent out abroad i know man u had a connection with royal antwerp which i think is still going ? saying that not much as come from it. i am sure arsenal use a french side also.
we always get told that the top sides in england have wonderful academies but from what i can see each club as one maybe two players that go on and stay in the first team. my pals a southampton fan and they seem to churn out talent. but again does a manager wait to say bring a striker with potential up through the ranks at a big club or do they spend big and hope for the best. look at liverpool with carroll 35 million, just think if that money had been put into there youth set up.

the game going middle class is a strange one. my dad was a fan in the 70s and don't forget back then there was little sometimes no segregation so fighting and high jinx was a plenty. myself i was brought up watching footy on terraces and to be honest i liked it way more. hard to get a atmosphere going now when half your mates are sat dotted all over the ground. also the fact i like a good rant now and then but it don't feel right with a mother and small daughter texting etc sat next to me.

on the race thing i think england gives everyone a shot if they can play well, same at club level. you look at arsenal over the years and they have gone from being mainly all white to sides that have very few white guys at times.
back in the 80s/90s england had a bad rep because some white groups national front etc would travel to away games but this is not the case now. in fact anyone calling other people or players because of there skin is a fucking idiot and they clamp down on that shit big time now. you will always get the odd group but that's not just a english problem. i went to watch lazio once it was like being at a hitler rally !!!

the terry thing for me is a strange one because he must have some good black friends in the football world or did have ! racism is still in football but then again it's still in everyday living also.

did you see the media today digging the dirt on stuart pearce ? not even in the job for a day and there on it.

**harpicboosh** · 11th February 2012

Originally Posted by oldskoolrules

trying not to go off on a tangent is hard work on this subject mate because many factors come in to it that i could of written pages about......

Pages & pages indeed-we're a right pair of gas bags!

Im going to restrict my posts to bullet point answers or illustrations now.

So starting now here's how I believe England will achieve long overdue success over in Polkraine this summer..